Deadpool's sexuality

A place to discuss anything Deadpool that just doesn't fit in one of the other forums

Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby DoctorDP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:22 am

I've only parsed through the arguments, but I think I get the gist. Here's my two cents.

This is not a big deal. I don't even care if Duggan is not joking, it's still not a big deal. As long as he doesn't hook up with Spider-Man(bleh) know I don't care.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby hgiel » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 am

I'm starting to believe this might be an issue of selective reading or you are really naive because here is one of many moments you seem to be over looking

Image

This is like beating a dead horse. Deadpool is a queer character, I'm done talking to people who want my community to constantly prove ourselves or hand out metals to those of you who use "but I have gay friends!" as an argument.

If Deadpool is straight then this is a matter of queer baiting (joking at representation or only using subtext) and that's homophobic bull shit.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby DoctorDP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:56 am

I'm not sure if homophobic would be the right word. I mean, that would imply a fear of homosexuals. We probably need a new word for disregarding the feelings of and being insensitive to homosexuals. Gaysploitation maybe? Oh, but the people in this forum are being a tad literally homophobic.

But I digress. I agree with the spirit of what hgiel, though I believe comedy can be a powerful tool in getting people to accept those different from themselves and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Heck, if people weren't so quick to run from Deadpool every time the waters get a little rough, I would recommend they do a whole storyline- maybe set in Deadpool's youth.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby BillyOfBillycartLane » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:36 am

hgiel wrote:This is like beating a dead horse.


You got that right. It feels like I can't respond to anything you've said without saying stuff I've already said. The conversation obviously ran its course a few pages ago.

Anyway, I read the older article that you linked to. Do you really find the gay stuff in Cable and Deadpool to be anything other than offensive? It's been years since I read it, but all I seem to remember of it amounted to a buildup to a punchline of one or the other going "ew ew ew that's not right." Way, also, is not somebody I would count on for a thoughtful approach to the issue.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby Dhoonib » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:23 am

I wasn't trying to get a metal from you I was trying to answer another poster who mentioned if this is a new direction for the character would I not accept it, to which I tried to illustrate my openness towards the direction if it's taken in the future. If you feel he is a gay or bi character great. I read the stories differently as do some of the other posters here on this forum. But as BillyofBillycartlane said not too far back it's about the writer's intent to which none of the writer's have come forward and expressed their intent for the character in terms of his attractions and love life. By using antidotal evidence especially of things Deadpool has said I could make a case that he is a homicidal maniac, that he is a cosmic messiah or that he is the son of Loki. But if you are done with this conversation and just say he is because you feel that way then we might as well stop posting here because it has become like beating a dead horse.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby cc008 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:48 am

hgiel wrote:I'm starting to believe this might be an issue of selective reading or you are really naive because here is one of many moments you seem to be over looking

This is like beating a dead horse. Deadpool is a queer character, I'm done talking to people who want my community to constantly prove ourselves or hand out metals to those of you who use "but I have gay friends!" as an argument.

If Deadpool is straight then this is a matter of queer baiting (joking at representation or only using subtext) and that's homophobic bull shit.


If you want for people to have an open mind about Deadpool possibly being gay, why can't you have an open mind about him possibly being a straight character? Because as it's been pointed out, it's never really been discussed before so no one can be ENTIRELY sure. Would you be disappointed if he turned out to be straight? Honest question.

No body has asked you to prove anything.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby DeadpoolBugle » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:09 pm

I just want to step in here before things escalate.

I think this thread as a discussion topic is great, but we need to remember the point of the discussion is about our interpretation and impression of a totally fictional character. This can be a very personal subject for people, needs to be handles with some amount of delicacy and with a lot of respect for one another.

As with any work of fiction, a large part of the character is in the reader's mind. Two people can read the same thing, and come across with totally different understandings.

With comics in particular, the same character gets written by lots of different people and the longer a character is around the more parts of the characters personality and history shift and the details get a little blurred around the edges.

For example, say you had two people, one who has only read Daniel Way's Deadpool run and one who has only read Joe Kelly's Deadpool run. These two people may both be huge Deadpool fans, but their impression of what Deadpool is like is totally different. Are they both Deadpool fans? Yes. Is one right and one wrong? No.

So what I'm saying is that feel free to say what sexual orientation Deadpool is based on what you've read. Feel free to post that you disagree with someone. I encourage you to cite examples from the comics. What I don't want to see is any accusations of homophobia or bigotry. I don't want you say your opinion is correct because of a moral or religious reason. I dont' want to see any personal attacks or insults to other users. If anyone isn't respectful, this topic will be locked.

For the most part, I think this thread has been has been handled with a lot of respect. I just wanted to step in and keep it that way.

Thanks
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby hgiel » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:02 pm

It's a little bit hard to refrain from accusations of homophobia and bigotry when my stance is that jokes about homosexuality are homophobic… But I'm going to assume you mean refrain from accusing other members here of homophobia and bigotry which won't be a problem.

I've been accused of repeating myself but I don't think I'm alone in this. I say Deadpool is shown to have interest in men and someone else says it's a joke. I say that if it's a joke it's homophobic and someone else says I'm overreacting. I give an example of the behaviors I'm referring to (samples taken from over decades of work and multiple teams) and someone says is simply anecdotal.

I will agree I'm repeating myself at this point but I have a lot of company.

Let me make my final statement on this so I feel that what I have to say is put within the context I intend and then I will cede the floor.

I believe strongly that comic books are not only an art form but a literary genre, both of which I have a great respect for, and while intent is important interpretation is the deciding factor. Depending on which issues we've read (as the admin said) or the educational and societal conditioning in which we filter information Deadpool can be a great many thing to a great many people. To me he is queer and has always been (my interpretation has nothing to do with the current run, but the entirety of the character's history as I've said before we see flirting with men before he's even made 10 appearances) but to many of you he is heterosexual. None of us have the final say, none of the writers involved even have the final say; Deadpool will always be an ever evolving character manipulated by different teams.

The reason I'm passionate about this discussion is because Deadpool is at a place where he can be used to speculate and debate on important issues of identity and sexuality. We can talk about the greater problems of homophobia in our society in a safe way by using a fictional character such as Deadpool because, for whatever reason, he's hitting on a lot of nerves and some of the issues that the LGBTQIA community is really struggling through at the moment.

The one that has seemed to come up the most in this discussion is the concept of identity versus sexual activity. People are constantly having their identities questioned because their sexual activity does not hold up to people's preconceived notions of their identity. The reason I feel so frustrated when I see people saying that Deadpool has to do something to prove that he is really is bisexual/pansexual/omnisexual is because this is going on in the real world where people (especially young women) are pressured into having sex simply to validate their identity. I truly don't want to go into details about this because I don't believe this is the place but please hear me when I sincerely tell you that perpetuating the idea that sexual identity has to be proven through sexual activity has real-world repercussions.

On a lighter note, I also feel it's important that those of us who believe that Deadpool is queer should stay involved in the conversation and not become beaten down by the negativity our interpretation receives. Not only do we advance the conversation but I've gotten lots of messages from people observing the conversation telling me that they've decided to pick up the comic, excited to see either a character who represents their sexuality or simply one that has gone woefully underrepresented and I've seen people say very disgusting and hurtful things about those of us who interpret Deadpool as queer but none of them have said they would stop reading; so, if nothing else, this dialogue is having some immediate beneficial influences.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby DoctorDP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:31 pm

I think we can confirm that Deadpool is not gay- he's into the ladies. The question is this: "Is he ALSO into the fellas?" or "Does he simply do anything that sits still long enough?" the latter I believe was what Mr. Duggan was implying, which would make him pan- or omni-sexual.

As for the gay jokes thing, what I'm getting at is that a joke involving homosexuality is not inherently homophobic. Which is a moot point because I don't believe either of the current Deadpool writers are exactly the rebel flag waving type.
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Re: Deadpool's sexuality

Postby porkchoppunch » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:00 pm

hgiel wrote:It's a little bit hard to refrain from accusations of homophobia and bigotry when my stance is that jokes about homosexuality are homophobic… But I'm going to assume you mean refrain from accusing other members here of homophobia and bigotry which won't be a problem.

I've been accused of repeating myself but I don't think I'm alone in this. I say Deadpool is shown to have interest in men and someone else says it's a joke. I say that if it's a joke it's homophobic and someone else says I'm overreacting. I give an example of the behaviors I'm referring to (samples taken from over decades of work and multiple teams) and someone says is simply anecdotal.

I will agree I'm repeating myself at this point but I have a lot of company.

Let me make my final statement on this so I feel that what I have to say is put within the context I intend and then I will cede the floor.

I believe strongly that comic books are not only an art form but a literary genre, both of which I have a great respect for, and while intent is important interpretation is the deciding factor. Depending on which issues we've read (as the admin said) or the educational and societal conditioning in which we filter information Deadpool can be a great many thing to a great many people. To me he is queer and has always been (my interpretation has nothing to do with the current run, but the entirety of the character's history as I've said before we see flirting with men before he's even made 10 appearances) but to many of you he is heterosexual. None of us have the final say, none of the writers involved even have the final say; Deadpool will always be an ever evolving character manipulated by different teams.

The reason I'm passionate about this discussion is because Deadpool is at a place where he can be used to speculate and debate on important issues of identity and sexuality. We can talk about the greater problems of homophobia in our society in a safe way by using a fictional character such as Deadpool because, for whatever reason, he's hitting on a lot of nerves and some of the issues that the LGBTQIA community is really struggling through at the moment.

The one that has seemed to come up the most in this discussion is the concept of identity versus sexual activity. People are constantly having their identities questioned because their sexual activity does not hold up to people's preconceived notions of their identity. The reason I feel so frustrated when I see people saying that Deadpool has to do something to prove that he is really is bisexual/pansexual/omnisexual is because this is going on in the real world where people (especially young women) are pressured into having sex simply to validate their identity. I truly don't want to go into details about this because I don't believe this is the place but please hear me when I sincerely tell you that perpetuating the idea that sexual identity has to be proven through sexual activity has real-world repercussions.

On a lighter note, I also feel it's important that those of us who believe that Deadpool is queer should stay involved in the conversation and not become beaten down by the negativity our interpretation receives. Not only do we advance the conversation but I've gotten lots of messages from people observing the conversation telling me that they've decided to pick up the comic, excited to see either a character who represents their sexuality or simply one that has gone woefully underrepresented and I've seen people say very disgusting and hurtful things about those of us who interpret Deadpool as queer but none of them have said they would stop reading; so, if nothing else, this dialogue is having some immediate beneficial influences.


All fine and dandy but if you really picture Deadpool as a gay character how do you explain his love of Siryn and his attraction to Typhoid Mary? How do you explain his wife Mercedes? CopyCat?

Also you said within 10 issues he made male attraction references, does this include The Circle Chase and Sins of the Past? How about X Factor? because I don't recall(granted I haven't read every X Factor)

I'm not gonna ask you to change your opinion I would just like you to clarify how he could be a homosexual and have all these examples countering that, if anything he would be as the topic discussed, pansexual. I personally feel all the references were simply to make the side cast feel uncomfortable, you believe they were genuine displays of attraction, neither of us can say the other is wrong so let's let that be.

On a side note I agree with what I have seen most people here say, if comic creators want to make a character who IS homosexual go for it, but trying to re-image an existing character into a new life style simply to appear sympathetic and reach a wider audience is annoying. Like what DC did to GL they made an alternate Earth GL gay, why? He already had a son who was gay in mainstream continuity what purpose did making and alternate version of him gay do except erase his son's existence from that version?

Comics have never been the most sensitive medium, look at how they portrayed the Japanese during WW2, but they are reflective of their current culture. It's obvious their are going to be more homosexual comic characters being created in the next few years as sexual tolerances are growing so why alter existing characters when they could just as easily add new characters?
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